2021-12-01

Anwesenheit

lux, spacekookie, yuka, nikky, nest, multi, stephie, bibor, codezero, hexchen, ralisi, yrrsinn, zotan, gyrosgeier, mitch

TOP1: Lux & Yuka music

  • kookie donated their old NAS running on core.lan
  • Synchronised MPD setup with snapcast
  • A cable exists on the shelves behind the antifa flag to plug phones / playback devices into
  • Documentation in the wiki

TOP2: Bibor's email

  • Point #1 of the e-mail
    • Last plenum discussed problems with opening up the space regularly again
    • Another problem: different parts of the community don't know each other
    • From a community-building perspective this is kinda sad (and got worse with covid)
    • A trust problem: it's hard to trust everyone in the space if you don't know them
    • Problem solving becomes hard when we don't know/ trust each other
  • Point #2 of the e-mail
    • Who are current key members? How and when do we revoke keys?
    • Idea: revoke access, and re-build access based on rules
      • People who come regularly have keys
      • People who come once a year might not need one
      • Plenum decides?
    • This requires personal availability at the plenum
  • Lux: someone who has a key should be part of the plenum structure
    • If we revoke keys we need to very quickly re-issue keys
    • Keep track of who has keys now and don't revoke en-mass
  • Hexchen: Mark all keys for revocation with 3 months timeout
  • Kookie: key revocation good, regular key-debounce bad. Who is going to enforce this?
    • Why do we need more bureaucracy?
    • We need trust and we need people to know how to act in the space, not regulations that need to be enforced.
  • Zotan: reasonable distance?
    • In Berlin several times a month, but lives 300km away. Does this disqualify them from a key?
    • Bibor: probably that's fine. This is a conversation we need to have
    • "Reasonable" is a very vague term
  • Hexchen: In muccc key requesters need to be known by the community
    • being proposed by another person or coming to plenums
    • but not strictly enforced in every case
  • Yrrsinn:
    • We have had key revocations before. Bureaucracy needs to be enforced and is hard
    • Key request is a good incentive to come to plenums
    • Plenums are a good place to build the community
    • Suggestion: every 12 months we revoke keys
  • Bibor:
    • Not a fan of regular revocation will result in chaos, so probably not feasible
    • This round will result in chaos
    • Agrees with Hexchen: no hard requirements
    • Important: plenum has to agree that you get a key. This ensures that the person is trusted
    • Additionally: this is a list of criteria the plenum should think about
  • Lux: summarise a few things
    • Convinced we won't be able to enforce a yearly reset
    • Likes idea the plenum hands out keys
    • Maybe add more plenums on a different week day
    • One-time reset will produce chaos and we need to think about how to deal with this
  • Kookie:
    • Generally a good idea that the plenum hands out keys
    • Questions: If you're part of a plenum, would you actually reject people?
    • Is there going to be a vote? Are you going to argue about it? […]
    • The plenum shouldn't decide (accept|reject)
    • Regular key revocations would be a bit of a nightmare, should be avoided
  • Steph:
    • There should be a way to revoke keys individually on a technical level
    • Needed to make the key system sustainable
  • Ralisi:
    • Proposing liberal ways of handing out keys (not against it)
    • Will we end up in the same situation as we are now?
    • How are we handing out keys currently. Kookie: we're not
  • Hexchen:
    • Idea from Edinburgh: to get a key N number of existing key members have to propose you to get a key
    • Builds a web of trust without liberally giving out keys
    • Don't have to vote at a Plenum
  • Yrrsinn:
    • Plenum definitely shouldn't decide about a person
    • Existing key members vouching for new key members should be enough
    • Still a fan of yearly revocations (key harvest festival)
  • "San Francisco is over"
  • Bibor:
    • Key-vouching idea is great
    • Does 2 things: establish web of trust and plenum can associate a face with a key
  • Nikky: If we do we even bootstrap a regular reset?
    • Yearly key-harvest festival
  • Key bootstrap is relevant whether we do one or we expire them
  • One suggestion for a reset:
    • Everyone at this plenum keeps
    • Separate technical from social problem
  • Lux(Summary): we appear to have consensus
    • Give out new keys by having 2 vouching key-members
    • Also let them introduce themselves at a plenum
  • Lux: do we want to revoke keys? And if so, how?
  • Kookie:
    • Wait until next plenum to revoke keys
    • We should also try to figure out a way to decentralise this process
  • Lux:
    • We need a way to bootstrap the new key system
    • But physical keyholders shouldn't turn into starting point of new key system
  • Bibor (recap):
    • Key revokation ok
    • New procedure to hand out key
      • Two existing key holders people vouch for new key holders (on a plenum? on the mailing list?)
      • Person shows up at plenum and says hi
    • We haven't agreed on the bootstrapping process yet
      • One-time bootstrap would give anyone now having a key keeping their key
        • Lux, spacekookie, yuka, gyrosgeier, bibor, yrrsinn, mitch, codezero
      • Repeated re-bootstrap process is to be determined (also do we want this even?)
  • Question: what about people who have a physical key but aren't on this list?
  • Action Item - Vorstand
    • Find out a way to find out who has physical keys
  • Action Item - "New Key Issueing Act" group:
    • Bibor, spacekookie, hexchen will draft the rules and announce the policy
  • Action Item - find out technical details of key system
    • spacekookie and hexchen will find out how the system works
    • Pres ent information at the next plenum

TOP3: physical presence during the pandemic

  • We can't check tests but we can check the vaccine certs
  • Rule idea: everyone in the afra is entitled to check all vaccine certificates of everyone present
  • Is this something people at the afra can agree on?
  • Yuka: change request everyone present can ask a key-holders to check the cert
  • Certs can leak sensitive information
  • Not everyone should have the right to do that
  • Reason for key-holders doing this is that there is additional responsibilities
  • Codezero:
  • Not sure whether we can legally not checking certs
  • Lux:
  • The AfRA doesn't fall under any of the categories as long as we don't organise events!
  • So we don't have to check vaccine certificates
  • Yrrsinn:
  • Assumption based on: AfRA is not open and only members can come here.
  • Thus the AfRA is not a public spacec
  • But: this is all complicated and none of us are lawyers
  • Bibor: self tests are extremely unreliable and not a layer of security
  • Yrrsinn:
  • Rule at the office: if you show any symptoms of the flu, don't come into the AfRA
  • Zotan: All rapid anti-gen tests are unreliable
  • Lux:
  • if you felt sick recently stay away for a few days (or have a PCR test)
  • technically if you have a red CWA tile you can get a free PCR test
  • Decision consensus: Key holders can be asked to check vaccine certificates

TOP4: MORE PLENUMS

  • Maybe have more than 1 plenum a month
  • Have the second day rotate so it's not just Wednesday
  • More smaller plenums
  • What we currently have works, but we can add something on top of it
  • Opinion poll shows consensus
  • Action Item: Lux and Yrrsinn will go away and present a new plan next plenum

TOP5: RC3 and chill planning

  • Have an RC3 experience at the AfRA with bean bags
  • Run this as a 4-day event
  • We shouldn't announce this anywhere
  • Gyrosgeier suggests we make it dependent on the COVID situation
  • The plenum trusts Gyrosgeier to make the correct choice about organising this

The plenum ended at 21:44

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