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| — | protokoll_2021-12-01 [2022-01-04 09:20] (aktuell) – angelegt hexchen | ||
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| + | ====== 2021-12-01 ====== | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== Anwesenheit ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | lux, spacekookie, | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== TOP1: Lux & Yuka music ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | * kookie donated their old NAS running on core.lan | ||
| + | * Synchronised MPD setup with snapcast | ||
| + | * A cable exists on the shelves behind the antifa flag to plug phones / playback devices into | ||
| + | * Documentation in the wiki | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== TOP2: Bibor' | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Point #1 of the e-mail | ||
| + | * Last plenum discussed problems with opening up the space regularly again | ||
| + | * Another problem: different parts of the community don't know each other | ||
| + | * From a community-building perspective this is kinda sad (and got worse with covid) | ||
| + | * A trust problem: it's hard to trust everyone in the space if you don't know them | ||
| + | * Problem solving becomes hard when we don't know/ trust each other | ||
| + | * Point #2 of the e-mail | ||
| + | * Who are current key members? How and when do we revoke keys? | ||
| + | * Idea: revoke access, and re-build access based on rules | ||
| + | * People who come regularly have keys | ||
| + | * People who come once a year might not need one | ||
| + | * Plenum decides? | ||
| + | * This requires personal availability at the plenum | ||
| + | * Lux: someone who has a key should be part of the plenum structure | ||
| + | * If we revoke keys we need to very quickly re-issue keys | ||
| + | * Keep track of who has keys now and don't revoke en-mass | ||
| + | * Hexchen: Mark all keys for revocation with 3 months timeout | ||
| + | * Kookie: key revocation good, regular key-debounce bad. Who is going to enforce this? | ||
| + | * Why do we need more bureaucracy? | ||
| + | * We need trust and we need people to know how to act in the space, not regulations that need to be enforced. | ||
| + | * Zotan: reasonable distance? | ||
| + | * In Berlin several times a month, but lives 300km away. Does this disqualify them from a key? | ||
| + | * Bibor: probably that's fine. This is a conversation we need to have | ||
| + | * " | ||
| + | * Hexchen: In muccc key requesters need to be known by the community | ||
| + | * being proposed by another person or coming to plenums | ||
| + | * but not strictly enforced in every case | ||
| + | * Yrrsinn: | ||
| + | * We have had key revocations before. Bureaucracy needs to be enforced and is hard | ||
| + | * Key request is a good incentive to come to plenums | ||
| + | * Plenums are a good place to build the community | ||
| + | * Suggestion: every 12 months we revoke keys | ||
| + | * Bibor: | ||
| + | * Not a fan of regular revocation will result in chaos, so probably not feasible | ||
| + | * This round will result in chaos | ||
| + | * Agrees with Hexchen: no hard requirements | ||
| + | * Important: plenum has to agree that you get a key. This ensures that the person is trusted | ||
| + | * Additionally: | ||
| + | * Lux: summarise a few things | ||
| + | * Convinced we won't be able to enforce a yearly reset | ||
| + | * Likes idea the plenum hands out keys | ||
| + | * Maybe add more plenums on a different week day | ||
| + | * One-time reset will produce chaos and we need to think about how to deal with this | ||
| + | * Kookie: | ||
| + | * Generally a good idea that the plenum hands out keys | ||
| + | * Questions: If you're part of a plenum, would you actually reject people? | ||
| + | * Is there going to be a vote? Are you going to argue about it? [...] | ||
| + | * The plenum shouldn' | ||
| + | * Regular key revocations would be a bit of a nightmare, should be avoided | ||
| + | * Steph: | ||
| + | * There should be a way to revoke keys individually on a technical level | ||
| + | * Needed to make the key system sustainable | ||
| + | * Ralisi: | ||
| + | * Proposing liberal ways of handing out keys (not against it) | ||
| + | * Will we end up in the same situation as we are now? | ||
| + | * How are we handing out keys currently. Kookie: we're not | ||
| + | * Hexchen: | ||
| + | * Idea from Edinburgh: to get a key N number of existing key members have to propose you to get a key | ||
| + | * Builds a web of trust without liberally giving out keys | ||
| + | * Don't have to vote at a Plenum | ||
| + | * Yrrsinn: | ||
| + | * Plenum definitely shouldn' | ||
| + | * Existing key members vouching for new key members should be enough | ||
| + | * Still a fan of yearly revocations (key harvest festival) | ||
| + | * "San Francisco is over" | ||
| + | * Bibor: | ||
| + | * Key-vouching idea is great | ||
| + | * Does 2 things: establish web of trust and plenum can associate a face with a key | ||
| + | * Nikky: If we do we even bootstrap a regular reset? | ||
| + | * Yearly key-harvest festival | ||
| + | * Key bootstrap is relevant whether we do one or we expire them | ||
| + | * One suggestion for a reset: | ||
| + | * Everyone at this plenum keeps | ||
| + | * Separate technical from social problem | ||
| + | * Lux(Summary): | ||
| + | * Give out new keys by having 2 vouching key-members | ||
| + | * Also let them introduce themselves at a plenum | ||
| + | * Lux: do we want to revoke keys? And if so, how? | ||
| + | * Kookie: | ||
| + | * Wait until next plenum to revoke keys | ||
| + | * We should also try to figure out a way to decentralise this process | ||
| + | * Lux: | ||
| + | * We need a way to bootstrap the new key system | ||
| + | * But physical keyholders shouldn' | ||
| + | * Bibor (recap): | ||
| + | * Key revokation ok | ||
| + | * New procedure to hand out key | ||
| + | * Two existing key holders people vouch for new key holders (on a plenum? on the mailing list?) | ||
| + | * Person shows up at plenum and says hi | ||
| + | * We haven' | ||
| + | * One-time bootstrap would give anyone now having a key keeping their key | ||
| + | * Lux, spacekookie, | ||
| + | * Repeated re-bootstrap process is to be determined (also do we want this even?) | ||
| + | * Question: what about people who have a physical key but aren't on this list? | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Action Item - Vorstand | ||
| + | * Find out a way to find out who has physical keys | ||
| + | * Action Item - "New Key Issueing Act" group: | ||
| + | * Bibor, spacekookie, | ||
| + | * Action Item - find out technical details of key system | ||
| + | * spacekookie and hexchen will find out how the system works | ||
| + | * Pres ent information at the next plenum | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== TOP3: physical presence during the pandemic ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | * We can't check tests but we can check the vaccine certs | ||
| + | * Rule idea: everyone in the afra is entitled to check all vaccine certificates of everyone present | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Is this something people at the afra can agree on? | ||
| + | * Yuka: change request everyone present can ask a key-holders to check the cert | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Certs can leak sensitive information | ||
| + | * Not everyone should have the right to do that | ||
| + | * Reason for key-holders doing this is that there is additional responsibilities | ||
| + | * Codezero: | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Not sure whether we can legally //not// checking certs | ||
| + | * Lux: | ||
| + | |||
| + | * The AfRA doesn' | ||
| + | * So we don't have to check vaccine certificates | ||
| + | * Yrrsinn: | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Assumption based on: AfRA is not open and only members can come here. | ||
| + | * Thus the AfRA is not a public spacec | ||
| + | * But: this is all complicated and none of us are lawyers | ||
| + | * Bibor: self tests are extremely unreliable and not a layer of security | ||
| + | * Yrrsinn: | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Rule at the office: if you show any symptoms of the flu, don't come into the AfRA | ||
| + | * Zotan: All rapid anti-gen tests are unreliable | ||
| + | * Lux: | ||
| + | |||
| + | * if you felt sick recently stay away for a few days (or have a PCR test) | ||
| + | * // | ||
| + | * Decision consensus: Key holders can be asked to check vaccine certificates | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== TOP4: MORE PLENUMS ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Maybe have more than 1 plenum a month | ||
| + | * Have the second day rotate so it's not //just// Wednesday | ||
| + | * More smaller plenums | ||
| + | * What we currently have works, but we can add something on top of it | ||
| + | * **Opinion poll shows consensus** | ||
| + | * Action Item: Lux and Yrrsinn will go away and present a new plan next plenum | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== TOP5: RC3 and chill planning ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | * Have an RC3 experience at the AfRA with bean bags | ||
| + | * Run this as a 4-day event | ||
| + | * **We shouldn' | ||
| + | * Gyrosgeier suggests we make it dependent on the COVID situation | ||
| + | * The plenum trusts Gyrosgeier to make the correct choice about organising this | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== The plenum ended at 21:44 ===== | ||
