2021-12-01

lux, spacekookie, yuka, nikky, nest, multi, stephie, bibor, codezero, hexchen, ralisi, yrrsinn, zotan, gyrosgeier, mitch

• kookie donated their old NAS running on core.lan
• Synchronised MPD setup with snapcast
• A cable exists on the shelves behind the antifa flag to plug phones / playback devices into
• Documentation in the wiki

• Point #1 of the e-mail
  • Last plenum discussed problems with opening up the space regularly again
  • Another problem: different parts of the community don't know each other
  • From a community-building perspective this is kinda sad (and got worse with covid)
  • A trust problem: it's hard to trust everyone in the space if you don't know them
  • Problem solving becomes hard when we don't know/ trust each other
• Point #2 of the e-mail
  • Who are current key members? How and when do we revoke keys?
  • Idea: revoke access, and re-build access based on rules
    • People who come regularly have keys
    • People who come once a year might not need one
    • Plenum decides?
  • This requires personal availability at the plenum
• Lux: someone who has a key should be part of the plenum structure
  • If we revoke keys we need to very quickly re-issue keys
  • Keep track of who has keys now and don't revoke en-mass
• Hexchen: Mark all keys for revocation with 3 months timeout
• Kookie: key revocation good, regular key-debounce bad. Who is going to enforce this?
  • Why do we need more bureaucracy?
  • We need trust and we need people to know how to act in the space, not regulations that need to be enforced.
• Zotan: reasonable distance?
  • In Berlin several times a month, but lives 300km away. Does this disqualify them from a key?
  • Bibor: probably that's fine. This is a conversation we need to have
  • "Reasonable" is a very vague term
• Hexchen: In muccc key requesters need to be known by the community
  • being proposed by another person or coming to plenums
  • but not strictly enforced in every case
• Yrrsinn:
  • We have had key revocations before. Bureaucracy needs to be enforced and is hard
  • Key request is a good incentive to come to plenums
  • Plenums are a good place to build the community
  • Suggestion: every 12 months we revoke keys
• Bibor:
  • Not a fan of regular revocation will result in chaos, so probably not feasible
  • This round will result in chaos
  • Agrees with Hexchen: no hard requirements
  • Important: plenum has to agree that you get a key. This ensures that the person is trusted
  • Additionally: this is a list of criteria the plenum should think about
• Lux: summarise a few things
  • Convinced we won't be able to enforce a yearly reset
  • Likes idea the plenum hands out keys
  • Maybe add more plenums on a different week day
  • One-time reset will produce chaos and we need to think about how to deal with this
• Kookie:
  • Generally a good idea that the plenum hands out keys
  • Questions: If you're part of a plenum, would you actually reject people?
  • Is there going to be a vote? Are you going to argue about it? […]
  • The plenum shouldn't decide (accept|reject)
  • Regular key revocations would be a bit of a nightmare, should be avoided
• Steph:
  • There should be a way to revoke keys individually on a technical level
  • Needed to make the key system sustainable
• Ralisi:
  • Proposing liberal ways of handing out keys (not against it)
  • Will we end up in the same situation as we are now?
  • How are we handing out keys currently. Kookie: we're not
• Hexchen:
  • Idea from Edinburgh: to get a key N number of existing key members have to propose you to get a key
  • Builds a web of trust without liberally giving out keys
  • Don't have to vote at a Plenum
• Yrrsinn:
  • Plenum definitely shouldn't decide about a person
  • Existing key members vouching for new key members should be enough
  • Still a fan of yearly revocations (key harvest festival)
• "San Francisco is over"
• Bibor:
  • Key-vouching idea is great
  • Does 2 things: establish web of trust and plenum can associate a face with a key
• Nikky: If we do we even bootstrap a regular reset?
  • Yearly key-harvest festival
• Key bootstrap is relevant whether we do one or we expire them
• One suggestion for a reset:
  • Everyone at this plenum keeps
  • Separate technical from social problem
• Lux(Summary): we appear to have consensus
  • Give out new keys by having 2 vouching key-members
  • Also let them introduce themselves at a plenum
• Lux: do we want to revoke keys? And if so, how?
• Kookie:
  • Wait until next plenum to revoke keys
  • We should also try to figure out a way to decentralise this process
• Lux:
  • We need a way to bootstrap the new key system
  • But physical keyholders shouldn't turn into starting point of new key system
• Bibor (recap):
  • Key revokation ok
  • New procedure to hand out key
    • Two existing key holders people vouch for new key holders (on a plenum? on the mailing list?)
    • Person shows up at plenum and says hi
  • We haven't agreed on the bootstrapping process yet
    • One-time bootstrap would give anyone now having a key keeping their key
      • Lux, spacekookie, yuka, gyrosgeier, bibor, yrrsinn, mitch, codezero
    • Repeated re-bootstrap process is to be determined (also do we want this even?)
• Question: what about people who have a physical key but aren't on this list?

• Action Item - Vorstand
  • Find out a way to find out who has physical keys
• Action Item - "New Key Issueing Act" group:
  • Bibor, spacekookie, hexchen will draft the rules and announce the policy
• Action Item - find out technical details of key system
  • spacekookie and hexchen will find out how the system works
  • Pres ent information at the next plenum

• We can't check tests but we can check the vaccine certs
• Rule idea: everyone in the afra is entitled to check all vaccine certificates of everyone present

• Is this something people at the afra can agree on?
• Yuka: change request everyone present can ask a key-holders to check the cert

• Certs can leak sensitive information
• Not everyone should have the right to do that
• Reason for key-holders doing this is that there is additional responsibilities
• Codezero:

• Not sure whether we can legally not checking certs
• Lux:

• The AfRA doesn't fall under any of the categories as long as we don't organise events!
• So we don't have to check vaccine certificates
• Yrrsinn:

• Assumption based on: AfRA is not open and only members can come here.
• Thus the AfRA is not a public spacec
• But: this is all complicated and none of us are lawyers
• Bibor: self tests are extremely unreliable and not a layer of security
• Yrrsinn:

• Rule at the office: if you show any symptoms of the flu, don't come into the AfRA
• Zotan: All rapid anti-gen tests are unreliable
• Lux:

• if you felt sick recently stay away for a few days (or have a PCR test)
• technically if you have a red CWA tile you can get a free PCR test
• Decision consensus: Key holders can be asked to check vaccine certificates

• Maybe have more than 1 plenum a month
• Have the second day rotate so it's not just Wednesday
• More smaller plenums
• What we currently have works, but we can add something on top of it
• Opinion poll shows consensus
• Action Item: Lux and Yrrsinn will go away and present a new plan next plenum

• Have an RC3 experience at the AfRA with bean bags
• Run this as a 4-day event
• We shouldn't announce this anywhere
• Gyrosgeier suggests we make it dependent on the COVID situation
• The plenum trusts Gyrosgeier to make the correct choice about organising this